But Lily looked at the product growth going forward and said this is a key group that's very successful that we have to figure out how to keep. We didn't like the corporate bureaucracy. I liked this creative, open and environment that I had with Gunars and Ken. If I could find a way to do that again, I'd be willing to take a career risk going forward and try to do that. But that wasn't available in Lilly.

In fact we actually tried to pitch to Lilly put us, Gunars, Kim and Ken off in a separate building, away from your bureaucracy and let us look at new ideas again. And they said no we don't operate that way. So we tried to do this sort of intrapreneur concept, but that ultimately became the genesis of the plan, hey let's got to find some money on our own and go out and find a garage, lab somewhere and do this on our own.

KEN: Well it wasn't really any fun anymore. We weren't really able to be innovative in what we wanted to do. It was more of a situation where we were told what to do. We couldn't really be scientists I guess is the best way to say it.

GUNARS: Kim I think at one point said well if you guys ever decide to leave this place, give me a call. And so that call was made and we started getting together deciding whether it was reasonable and could we get money to start something.